Kaburke had finally uploaded the 'official' New Vegas Mod Manager here. For the moment it seems to be a bit buggy as it works for both Fallout 3 and New Vegas which is ambitious. Still worth keeping an eye on as FOMM's load order is updated almost daily.

What differentiates the mod manager from the data files thing accessible though the launcher?

Load Order. You can change it with the Mod Manger but you can't with the data files manager. Mods always load in a certain order and if it's not the correct one it will crash your game or cause any kind of wierdness.

Seems odd that the order would have a bearing on things, is it for mods that interconnect?

not only that, it's a matter of how the game engine is loading information... it rewrites first loaded mods with later loaded mods, as long as they affect the same item/NPC/game setting. For example...
Mod 1 - unofficial patch (changes a million things around the game)
Mod 2 - a rebalancing mod (changes weapon statistics)
Mod 3 - mod changing the damage of gauss rifle
I wrote these mods in the correct order... first the patch fixes a problem with the gauss rifle, then the other mod balances it and the third mod is your personal preference to increase its damage.
In the opposite order, it would be a problem - first you change the damage like you want - then the damage gets overwritten with the balancing mod - and finally even the balancing mod will be overwritten with a patch. Item statistics and other things in-game are saved as a whole... if you change the damage of a weapon, the mod will also save information about everything else - ammo, weight, ...
This is how Gamebryo engine works since Morrowind and it's a very flexible system if you know how to use it :)

One more problem is, if Mod 2 is referencing Mod 1... if you load Mod 2 first, the game will simply crash.

Well said. It's not a huge problem at the moment as we are only dealing with .esp's and the worst that should happen is one will just overwrite another one. The problems will occur soon when people start releasing .esm's and like you said you will have .esp's looking for .esm's which are loaded after it and *crash*

At the moment you should have a load order like this:

FalloutNV.esm
Compiled Patch.esp
DarNifiedUINV.esp
URWLNV.esp
Other .esps
-
-
-

A good example of a possible conflict is the Advanced Recon Armor mod. It has to be loaded like this:

Advanced Recon Armor.esp
Advanced Recon Armor-Easier Stealth.esp
Advanced Recon Gear.esp
Advanced Recon Gear-Nightvision Blue.esp
Advanced Recon Armor-Location **.esp
Advanced Recon Gear-Location **.esp

Those ones can cause problems so make sure they are in that order. After that it shouldn't really matter for now.

Damn thats complicated stuff. Makes sense though I guess, never been big on mods myself, only really using radio & UI mods myself

heh, once your mod count goes over a 100, it's mostly about getting the mods in the right order :D

There is a utility for Oblivion, which can order all your mods in the correct order automatically... basically a giant database of all known mods in the most conflict-free order. I think I saw something like that for Fallout 3, so it should be only a matter of time until we get one for NV.

Yeah FOMM for FO3 had a load order sorter which was updated almost daily. The FOMM I linked earlier is the NV version but it's only alpha at the moment. FO3Edit was the utility for creating bashed patches and there is already a NV version called surprisingly NVEdit.

Not to bash on mod developers, but that sounds like improper programming practices. Where they aren't testing to make sure that what they're monkeying around with is in a state to be adjusted. Not that that is particularly easy to do.

No, there mods out there that make stupid mistakes like leaving a field blank not knowing another mod might need it however FO3Edit fixes that. The problem with the load order is having two mods that modify the same data. It's not sloppy programming but a conflict. Thats why you need a load order to decide which mod is more 'dominant'.

Strictly speaking, failing to check to ensure that the data is as expected is the responsibility of the programmer, and it is a programming mistake when a failure to verify (and possibly sanitize) the data leads to a crash. The fact that some other mod developer may be using the same data isn't really the point. Ultimately it's an insecure coding practice and while it's not as big of a deal for a single player game, it does have security implications. Fortunately, none of the stores which distribute New Vegas ban for single player shenanigans.

Ultimately if it crashes without telling the user why, it's broken. Even with free mods it's not desirable to have people thinking that it's your mod that's broken where it would work fine with a different load order.

Uh ... no. If a user downloads a mod that changes an NPC's stats, then downloads another mod that changes an NPC's level cap both affecting that NPC's template then thats a possible conflict caused by the user. Almost every modder says only download and run only one weather mod, one level mod, one weapon mod etc. You can make bashed patches what will combine these mods but that's up to the user. It's not the modders fault as the mod does what it says it does.


Found a very strange place today. Canyon Wreckage West of Primm. It's nothing just a wrecked caravan and no loot. However written on it in grafitti are "Courier Six?" and "You can go home Courier". WTF?

I have to partially agree here. If the game is loading an esp, it exactly knows what master files it's looking for and knows exactly when they are not there. But instead of telling you that you need a file, the game just crashes and that's it.
What's even more weird is, that in old Morrowind, there was a crash log file where you could find this information. Why they disabled the log file in every newer game is totally beyond me.

Yeah, I didn't get that either :) Nobody knows you at that point in the game. My guess that it is a placeholder for a future DLC

Patch has just been uploaded on Steam, two patches? They are doing pretty well so far. Patch notes:

- Companions now show up as waypoints on the map
- Companions will always fast travel with you, unless told to wait or sent away
- Fix: DLC error/save corruption
- Fix: Stuttering with water effects
- Fix: Severe performance issues with DirectX.
- Fix: Controls temporarily disabled after reloading Cowboy Repeater while crouched
- Fixed crash using the Euclid C-Finder while having the Heave Ho perk
- Fix: Entering the strip after Debt Collector causes crash and autosave corruption
- Fix: Using Mojave Express dropbox can cause DLC warnings
- Fixed crash when buying duplicate caravan cards from a vendor in a single transaction
- Crafting menu should filter valid (bright) recipes to the top of the list
- Fix: Sitting down while looking down a weapon's ironsights leaves player control locked
- Fix: If a companion is knocked unconscious with broken limbs they stay broken on respawn
- Fix for varmint night scope effect persisting in kill cam
- Fix for giving companions armor that adds STR does not increase their carry weight
- Fix NPC Repair menu displays DAM as DPS
- Having NPC repair service rifle with forged receiver decreases CND