It seems that you're using an outdated browser. Some things may not work as they should (or don't work at all).
We suggest you upgrade newer and better browser like: Chrome, Firefox, Internet Explorer or Opera

×
Community
General discussion (archive)This makes me so angry.(169 posts)(169 posts)
(169 posts)
Pages:
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
This is my favourite topic
Posted February 06, 2012
The people are nothing without rights.
Posted February 06, 2012
Americans have a duty to remind their authority figures of the constitution, as it's clearly not something that they'll pay heed to of their own accord. The US constitution was written by far better people than those currently in power, so hold on to it.

avatar
crazy_dave: Atheists are minority everywhere ... except maybe the internet. Either because of a selection effect or there are a lot more atheists who are too afraid to admit to being atheists. :)
Not in the UK. A lot of the churches in my vicinity have been converted to other purposes now. Like snooker halls and that one club which naturally couldn't sell alcohol in a church so... yeah. That got closed down.
Post edited February 06, 2012 by Navagon
Posted February 06, 2012
No, people are nothing without the rights to life, health, and shelter. Anything else can and should be modified according to the situation.
avatar
Navagon: Americans have a duty to remind their authority figures of the constitution, as it's clearly not something that they'll pay heed to of their own accord. The US constitution was written by far better people than those currently in power, so hold on to it.

avatar
crazy_dave: Atheists are minority everywhere ... except maybe the internet. Either because of a selection effect or there are a lot more atheists who are too afraid to admit to being atheists. :)
avatar
Navagon: Not in the UK. A lot of the churches in my vicinity have been converted to other purposes now. Like snooker halls and that one club which naturally couldn't sell alcohol in a church so... yeah. That got closed down.
Obviously the constitution was written by better people than we have now. This is one of the worst Congresses we've ever had. But my point is that it's a living document. It can and should change with the times. And I think it's time we made changes to laws concerning racism and advocacy of violence.
Post edited February 06, 2012 by TCMU2009
Posted February 06, 2012
What the hell - I'll bite.

What would you put in the Constitution to combat racism and violence?

This oughta be good.
Posted February 06, 2012
New laws that make it illegal for hate groups to exist maybe? I'm not trying to offer solutions, I'm just saying over reliance on the constitution is annoying. People put so much focus on the fact that they have the right to do something, but don't ever stop to think if they SHOULD do it.
Post edited February 06, 2012 by TCMU2009
Posted February 06, 2012
avatar
TCMU2009: Obviously the constitution was written by better people than we have now. This is one of the worst Congresses we've ever had. But my point is that it's a living document. It can and should change with the times. And I think it's time we made changes to laws concerning racism and advocacy of violence.
You just have to be careful about the intentions behind those changes. Given the all too obvious true motivations behind things such as anti-terrorism and anti-piracy legislation it's clear that before you make those changes you first need to have the right people in place whom you can trust to make those changes.
avatar
TCMU2009: New laws that make it illegal for hate groups to exist maybe?
Which is exactly the kind of vague terminology they're hoping to exploit with anti-piracy legislation and already are exploiting with anti-terror legislation.
Post edited February 06, 2012 by Navagon
Posted February 06, 2012
avatar
TCMU2009: Obviously the constitution was written by better people than we have now. This is one of the worst Congresses we've ever had. But my point is that it's a living document. It can and should change with the times. And I think it's time we made changes to laws concerning racism and advocacy of violence.
avatar
Navagon: You just have to be careful about the intentions behind those changes. Given the all too obvious true motivations behind things such as anti-terrorism and anti-piracy legislation it's clear that before you make those changes you first need to have the right people in place whom you can trust to make those changes.
That's the biggest problem, and that's why constitutional change is such a scary subject. The people in power rarely have the best interests of the people in mind, and mistakes and biases in many pieces of current legislation prove that. Then there are those who are completely delusional or misinformed about what might help, like the guy behind SOPA. And then there are the people who will always push the constitution and law to their limits just because they have a "right" to.
Posted February 06, 2012
avatar
TCMU2009: This has nothing to do with religious rights, or the constitution, or her bravery. It's about intelligence. I think she made a really stupid and unnecessary decision, that's all.
Unnecessary? Well yeah, but then there are a lot of things and actions that aren’t strictly necessary. I don’t see why necessity becomes a question here. I wouldn’t call her actions stupid. Although I do wonder if she understood how people might react towards her when she decided to pursue this.
Posted February 06, 2012
avatar
jefequeso: I'm curious... a while back in my town, the city decreed that a certain church wasn't legally permitted to set up their yearly nativity scene in the park, because it was government owned property, and thus couldn't be affiliated with religion in any way. The nativitey scene was set up, maintained, and paid for by the church.
On a somewhat related note.

I don't have much sympathy for the athiests on this one. Maybe Santa Monica could change the lottery rules so that only residents can submit applications.
Posted February 06, 2012
avatar
TCMU2009: Then there are those who are completely delusional or misinformed about what might help, like the guy behind SOPA. And then there are the people who will always push the constitution and law to their limits just because they have a "right" to.
I don't think that Lamar Smith could really be said to be behind SOPA. We know who the real powers that be are there and they carry far more political weight than he ever will. He was a convenient puppet, but far too ignorant to have had any real say in the bill.

As for pushing the constitution, yes, inevitable. That's why you cannot allow for any vague terminology as it will be exploited. For instance, an anti-government group could be labelled a 'hate group'.
Posted February 06, 2012
avatar
HereForTheBeer: I would rather have this stuff out there. I mean, we can plug our ears and go "LALALALALALA!" 'til we're blue in the face but it won't do bupkis to change the underlying attitude. So yeah, government repression isn't a very good thing. Repress this stuff long and hard enough and we'll find that so-called hate groups, who mostly just voice an opinion and burn the occasional cross, eventually turn into terror cells.

However, I'm bothered more by the "screw the Constitution for the common good" attitude than I am of some boneheads walking around in sheets and pointy hats. One can do real harm, while the other gives me something to laugh at.



Yeah, what he ^ said.
avatar
TCMU2009: The constitution is just words on a piece of paper, written by fallible men who had no idea the diversity and intricacies the world would produce. If you'd rather defend that than human lives and health, than whatever. That's why I don't like libertarianism, it puts peoples rights above the people themselves.
Well, the potential problem is that once you start changing or ignoring parts of the Constitution (which is already happening, regardless), you start chipping away at some of the things that keep the people in power in check. ESPECIALLY anything having to do with freedom of speech, because it seems that politicians already use any possible excuse to throw it out the window.
Posted February 06, 2012
avatar
TCMU2009: Then there are those who are completely delusional or misinformed about what might help, like the guy behind SOPA. And then there are the people who will always push the constitution and law to their limits just because they have a "right" to.
avatar
Navagon: I don't think that Lamar Smith could really be said to be behind SOPA. We know who the real powers that be are there and they carry far more political weight than he ever will. He was a convenient puppet, but far too ignorant to have had any real say in the bill.

As for pushing the constitution, yes, inevitable. That's why you cannot allow for any vague terminology as it will be exploited. For instance, an anti-government group could be labelled a 'hate group'.
I'm not trying to right a full, corrective, loophole free law here lol. Anything I say is going to be vague. I don't know if we really need to change the law or constitution. I'm just sick of people hiding behind it every time they say or do something awful, but lawful at the same time. And I don't know that much about SOPA, like what party actually supported it or what people drafted it. I just know it was a dumb idea.
avatar
TCMU2009: The constitution is just words on a piece of paper, written by fallible men who had no idea the diversity and intricacies the world would produce. If you'd rather defend that than human lives and health, than whatever. That's why I don't like libertarianism, it puts peoples rights above the people themselves.
avatar
jefequeso: Well, the potential problem is that once you start changing or ignoring parts of the Constitution (which is already happening, regardless), you start chipping away at some of the things that keep the people in power in check. ESPECIALLY anything having to do with freedom of speech, because it seems that politicians already use any possible excuse to throw it out the window.
The freedom of speech is the one that's abused the most. People, especially political leaders who should act better, use it as a get out of jail free card whenever they act like idiots. That's what bothers me.
Post edited February 06, 2012 by TCMU2009
Posted February 06, 2012
avatar
Navagon: Americans have a duty to remind their authority figures of the constitution, as it's clearly not something that they'll pay heed to of their own accord. The US constitution was written by far better people than those currently in power, so hold on to it.

avatar
crazy_dave: Atheists are minority everywhere ... except maybe the internet. Either because of a selection effect or there are a lot more atheists who are too afraid to admit to being atheists. :)
avatar
Navagon: Not in the UK. A lot of the churches in my vicinity have been converted to other purposes now. Like snooker halls and that one club which naturally couldn't sell alcohol in a church so... yeah. That got closed down.
heh...here we had little bit of the opposite happen. Some guys were like "hey...you know what would be cool? Holding church services in a bar." And they did--on sundays, when the bar was closed ('cause otherwise they couldn't use it). For probably a year, until the congregation got too big and they had to move somewhere else (although it's still referred to as "church in a bar"). I think the best story I heard about the place was the night that the cops stormed in and arrested one of the attendees, right in the middle of the sermon.




avatar
Navagon: I don't think that Lamar Smith could really be said to be behind SOPA. We know who the real powers that be are there and they carry far more political weight than he ever will. He was a convenient puppet, but far too ignorant to have had any real say in the bill.

As for pushing the constitution, yes, inevitable. That's why you cannot allow for any vague terminology as it will be exploited. For instance, an anti-government group could be labelled a 'hate group'.
avatar
TCMU2009: I'm not trying to right a full, corrective, loophole free law here lol. Anything I say is going to be vague. I don't know if we really need to change the law or constitution. I'm just sick of people hiding behind it every time they say or do something awful, but lawful at the same time. And I don't know that much about SOPA, like what party actually supported it or what people drafted it. I just know it was a dumb idea.
avatar
jefequeso: Well, the potential problem is that once you start changing or ignoring parts of the Constitution (which is already happening, regardless), you start chipping away at some of the things that keep the people in power in check. ESPECIALLY anything having to do with freedom of speech, because it seems that politicians already use any possible excuse to throw it out the window.
avatar
TCMU2009: The freedom of speech is the one that's abused the most. People, especially political leaders who should act better, use it as a get out of jail free card whenever they act like idiots. That's what bothers me.
There's only one way to fix that--change human nature. There's no good realistic solution.
Post edited February 06, 2012 by jefequeso
Posted February 06, 2012
avatar
Navagon: Americans have a duty to remind their authority figures of the constitution, as it's clearly not something that they'll pay heed to of their own accord. The US constitution was written by far better people than those currently in power, so hold on to it.



Not in the UK. A lot of the churches in my vicinity have been converted to other purposes now. Like snooker halls and that one club which naturally couldn't sell alcohol in a church so... yeah. That got closed down.
avatar
jefequeso: heh...here we had little bit of the opposite happen. Some guys were like "hey...you know what would be cool? Holding church services in a bar." And they did--on sundays, when the bar was closed ('cause otherwise they couldn't use it). For probably a year, until the congregation got too big and they had to move somewhere else (although it's still referred to as "church in a bar"). I think the best story I heard about the place was the night that the cops stormed in and arrested one of the attendees, right in the middle of the sermon.




avatar
TCMU2009: I'm not trying to right a full, corrective, loophole free law here lol. Anything I say is going to be vague. I don't know if we really need to change the law or constitution. I'm just sick of people hiding behind it every time they say or do something awful, but lawful at the same time. And I don't know that much about SOPA, like what party actually supported it or what people drafted it. I just know it was a dumb idea.


The freedom of speech is the one that's abused the most. People, especially political leaders who should act better, use it as a get out of jail free card whenever they act like idiots. That's what bothers me.
avatar
jefequeso: There's only one way to fix that--change human nature. There's no good realistic solution.
Amen to that. I don't think anything else needs to be said. A simple change in the way we treat each other would solve all these problems.
Posted February 06, 2012
avatar
TCMU2009: New laws that make it illegal for hate groups to exist maybe?
Concerning racism in general, laws are useless and essential at the same time. You fight racism by changing mentality. Which is a long and very difficult task. Establishing laws is the easiest way, and I think you usually get immediate results, but laws will "only" prevent people from spreading racism out loud.
Pages:
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
This is my favourite topic
Community
General discussion (archive)This makes me so angry.(169 posts)(169 posts)
(169 posts)