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Since the discussion got some wind under it's belt in the gaming deals thread, please continue the discussion here. I'm really interested in your opinions about the game, since I think it's one of the best there is



THERE BE SPOILERS
Post edited July 20, 2011 by KneeTheCap
Right since you've started it, I'll just copy paste what I originally intended to post (but decided against and saved it in a txt file)

Carried over from the Gaming Deals Thread...

Just to discuss some points mentioned by OmegaX, the camera is shitty not only because of the lag. I may never get used to that, but it is an annoyance that can be overlooked if you're not that picky. The main problem with the camera itself is that it tends to get blocked by Thorton's head or a random object that's behind him.

The aiming is fine. I cannot for the life of me figure out what's wrong with it, but then again I hide behind cover and take my time to aim. Some of the complaints are just off, and I believe they're neglecting the fact that how well you can hit when stationary is determined by the gun's Accuracy.

I like the graphics. Facial animations are nice, but one thing that bugs me is that characters keep looking away. Doesn't matter who's talking, they all have a tendency to look away from the eyes, as if they're suffering from low self-esteem. It just feels unnatural. Still this is just a nitpick.

Speaking of low self-esteem, Mike Thorton seems closer to Chuck than the three B's that Obsidian brought up in an interview (Bond, Bauer and Bourne). He seems more a bumbling guy who's either too interested in himself, or too disassociated with himself. Lacks personality imho. Credit given where due, he does become more interesting later on in the game. He's certainly more fleshed out in Rome than when he is in Saudi Arabia.

Reviewers who said stealth is useless are the reason why I don't take mainstream reviews seriously anymore. You certainly can't bank on finishing the game with only Pistols, Stealth and Martial Arts without running into problems, but for the later part of the game it is an equally viable option compared to combat. I wouldn't have been able to take on Darcy and Marburg as easily without Shadow Operative (Expert) and Chain Shot (Master). I have to agree that Pistol alone is useless in a confrontation, since it's only useful for Critical shots, but it is a good weapon for a lot of situations.

I like the C&C in AP. Very nice, some filler here and there but there are a lot of unique permutations in which you can play out the entire game.

Dialogue wheels are a travesty for me.

Controls are very sticky and annoying. Reloading when taking cover is always a bad idea - and not taking cover is also a bad idea. I also don't like how this game goes for a "cinematic" feel by taking away the Jump button, and instead holding you by the hand, telling you where you can drop or jump. It doesn't make the game any more "immersive", just annoying. In the last mission in Taiwan, in one part of the gardens, there's actually a machine gun nest with a secondary objective close by, but even though it's an arm's reach away from the footpath, you can only reach it if you'd traveled through another doorway beside the one you came in through. Hypothetically, you don't even need to jump, just run up a few gentle boulders and you can reach it; but you can't, because there's an artificial wall there blocking your way. Whoever thought that would be a good idea?

That about sums up my thoughts on the comments brought up in the Gaming Deals Thread.
Post edited July 20, 2011 by lowyhong
I never had any problem with the camera. It never stuttered or lagged. And it never got blocked in anything. Maybe I was just lucky?

I love how they made the shooting system here. That you actually need to put some points in the skill before you can expect to snipe the enemy behind a washing machine :)

And for me, this game has most memorable characters than usual. Just think of Steven Heck, Sis, SIE, that crazy russian (Brayko) and Scarlett. Honestly :)
I have the impression that many of the bad reviews for the game were simply due to it being Obsidian. So many people were expecting a buggy mess due to Obsidian's reputation that a buggy mess is all they saw. I'm not saying there aren't bugs in the game, as there are, but I didn't find it was any worse than most other games. I think that aspect of the game reviews is vastly overblown.

As for the game play and many of the points Lowyhong makes, much of that is personal opinion and perfectly valid. Nothing anyone can do to change how people feel about it. I personally agree with many of those points, but found it didn't detract too much from the game for me. I find the game pretty fun and don't hesitate to recommend it if someone asks about it. Good game. Not great, but more than worth the $5 it's going for right now on Gamersgate.
The camera lag I believe has something to do with the game's texture streaming or something like that. I edited the ini and it somewhat alleviated the problem, but I did still get the problem especially in more heated areas.

Agree about the characters. Some are rather interesting, like Heck. Mina's also quite likable, though the part about her betrayal still confuses me. Speaking of Brayko -- BLARGH! It took me many many tries before I realized that Heck's intel could give me an edge over him. I was so frustrated, I shot him in cold blood after defeating him. That was really cool.

@Coel: speaking of price, I bought it from Amazon for $8, $12 if including shipping. While playing Saudi Arabia, I definitely felt like it was money wasted, but my opinion towards the game certainly turned for the better while halfway through Taiwan. Rome was just great.

Also, <3 gelato shop. The gelato shop is gold.

-edit- I should mention the controls for the hacking minigame too. Retrieving the right-hand side password with the mouse was a painful experience.
Post edited July 20, 2011 by lowyhong
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lowyhong: The camera lag I believe has something to do with the game's texture streaming or something like that. I edited the ini and it somewhat alleviated the problem, but I did still get the problem especially in more heated areas.

Agree about the characters. Some are rather interesting, like Heck. Mina's also quite likable, though the part about her betrayal still confuses me. Speaking of Brayko -- BLARGH! It took me many many tries before I realized that Heck's intel could give me an edge over him. I was so frustrated, I shot him in cold blood after defeating him. That was really cool.
Yeah, it's a shame that it's pretty much the only interaction between the hubs, because it was a very, very nice detail. Of course, having missions and handlers interact across hubs would've been even more nightmarishly complex. It already tracks a shitload of things.

My favorite is how to deal with Marburg, if you have a defined style already, but go all James Bond smug/sarcastic on him he will CALL YOU OUT, realizing that you are trying to get on his nerves (And to be fair, Mike's profile in the Graybox says that that is pretty much why he was recruited, because he can manipulate people very easily), but if your general style until Rome is pretty much pure suave, at the end he will actually get royally pissed and attack you to the death, instead of running away.

Also, the sheer amount of variation and connections, it is possible to get Parker to attack Marburg as well. AND MARBURG AGAINST PARKER.
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lowyhong: *snip*
Also, <3 gelato shop. The gelato shop is gold.
It sure was :D

And as for Brayko, that damn song was stuck in my head for days after playing tag with him for a "few" times :D

Edit. And of course the moment, where SIE takes advantage of Thorton while he's tied to a table, was hilarious :D
Post edited July 20, 2011 by KneeTheCap
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Luisfius: My favorite is how to deal with Marburg, if you have a defined style already, but go all James Bond smug/sarcastic on him he will CALL YOU OUT, realizing that you are trying to get on his nerves (And to be fair, Mike's profile in the Graybox says that that is pretty much why he was recruited, because he can manipulate people very easily), but if your general style until Rome is pretty much pure suave, at the end he will actually get royally pissed and attack you to the death, instead of running away.
I managed to do both at the museum. Fighting him was just too frustrating (played on the hardest difficulty; I underestimated the game). The first time I just kept taunting him until he got angry and wanted to fight till the end. Second time, I wondered what would happen if I chose Debate, so I did, and he ran away. I didn't mind though, I certainly didn't want to fight him again. I must have gone through that fight about 10 times, and it was doubly difficult because I didn't put any points into Technical Aptitude.
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Luisfius: Also, the sheer amount of variation and connections, it is possible to get Parker to attack Marburg as well. AND MARBURG AGAINST PARKER.
I read about that. You need to have Madison killed right?
Post edited July 20, 2011 by lowyhong
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KneeTheCap: Since the discussion got some wind under it's belt in the gaming deals thread, please continue the discussion here
Agree .
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Luisfius: Yeah, it's a shame that it's pretty much the only interaction between the hubs, because it was a very, very nice detail. Of course, having missions and handlers interact across hubs would've been even more nightmarishly complex. It already tracks a shitload of things.
The closest to that would be Taiwan. I thought it was a nice touch having an entire party to help you out. That's also the first time I started taking Stealth seriously. It's not going to win any innovation awards as a stealth game, but it was a decent experience.
Post edited July 20, 2011 by lowyhong
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lowyhong: Dialogue wheels are a travesty for me.
Out of curiosity, I've never played Alpha Protocol (wouldn't mind doing so, though), what's the problem with Dialogue wheels? How is it any worse than choosing dialogue choices from a list?
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lowyhong: Dialogue wheels are a travesty for me.
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doccarnby: Out of curiosity, I've never played Alpha Protocol (wouldn't mind doing so, though), what's the problem with Dialogue wheels? How is it any worse than choosing dialogue choices from a list?
It has a timer :)
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lowyhong: Dialogue wheels are a travesty for me.
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doccarnby: Out of curiosity, I've never played Alpha Protocol (wouldn't mind doing so, though), what's the problem with Dialogue wheels? How is it any worse than choosing dialogue choices from a list?
A list gives you a definite (usually) picture of what you're going to say. The wheel in AP gives you the general tone with no real idea of the exact words that are going to come out of Thorton's mouth. As well, it's timed so you only have a few seconds to decide what option to pick.
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doccarnby: Out of curiosity, I've never played Alpha Protocol (wouldn't mind doing so, though), what's the problem with Dialogue wheels? How is it any worse than choosing dialogue choices from a list?
The choices usually didn't come out reflecting what I expected. I remember quite a few times choosing "Mocking" or "Sarcastic" and the comment made was directed at someone else. Sometimes, even if the direction of the choice is obvious, it's only reflected 1 second before the timer runs out - there is a timer ticking down during the conversation, which means you have to quickly make your choice. "Suave" is also never suave. Like luisfius mentioned in the Gaming Deals thread, "suave" just makes Thorton look like Archer rather than Bond i.e. comedy material rather than cocky jock.

As a result, I mostly just went with instinct rather than logic, not fully knowing what Thorton was really going to say next. I'd much rather have a list of choices (without the timer!), like in The Witcher. At the very least I know if I'm going to say something sarcastic about the subject matter, or directing a snarky remark at the person I'm talking to.
Post edited July 20, 2011 by lowyhong
Of course, none of those are issues with the wheel itself. Ok, I understand what you're saying, though. A timer sounds pretty bad in an RPG.